Reference:5517: Difference between revisions

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5517: rebuild from external research scout (16 sources). MAJOR CORRECTIONS: (1) Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 lot 152 CHF 504,000 = public auction record (NOT Sotheby 2023 482,600). (2) T-circle is DIAL marking not caseback engraving. Fix caseback specs: Royal Navy 0552/923-7697/issue/year + broad arrow; Army W10/6645/99/923-7697/issue/year + broad arrow. (3) Cal 1520 26j RESOLVED unanimous across auction houses (1570 forum claim = contamination from 5512/5513). (4) Two serial bands: 3.926M (5513-...
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{{#seo:
{{#seo:
|title=Rolex 5517 Submariner — Production, Dial Variants, Serial Ranges | BezelBase
|title=Rolex 5517 Submariner — Production, Dial Variants, Serial Ranges | BezelBase
|description=The 5517 is the MilSub — the British military Submariner, purpose-built for the Royal Navy and never sold through any retail channel. Approximately 1,200…
|description=The 5517 is the British military Submariner. Three batches across roughly 1972-1979, fixed bars, full 60-minute bezel, sword hands, T SWISS T tritium dial. Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 CHF 504,000 result is the public auction record.
|keywords=Rolex, 5517, Submariner, specifications, reference guide
|keywords=Rolex, 5517, MilSub, Royal Navy, military Submariner, broadsword hands, T SWISS T
|image=Ref 5517 hero.webp
|image=Ref 5517 hero.webp
|image_alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
|image_alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
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|og_type=article
|og_type=article
|published_time=2026-04-14T16:13:13Z
|published_time=2026-04-14T16:13:13Z
|modified_time=2026-04-29T02:49:49Z
|modified_time=2026-04-29T06:20:00Z
|robots=index,follow,max-image-preview:large
|robots=index,follow,max-image-preview:large
}}
}}
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<small>[[Reference:submariner|Submariner]] -> '''5517'''</small>
<small>[[Reference:submariner|Submariner]] -> '''5517'''</small>


The 5517 is the MilSub: the British military Submariner, purpose-built for the Royal Navy and never sold through any retail channel. Production ran to roughly 1,200 units, and only around 180 are accounted for in collector databases. A 1978 example sold at Sotheby's in November 2023 for 482,600 CHF, the highest MilSub auction result on record, putting the 5517 alongside the earliest and rarest Submariners despite being a 1970s watch.
The 5517 is the MilSub: the British military Submariner, purpose-built for the Ministry of Defence and never sold through any retail channel. Production ran across three batches roughly 1972 to 1979 in two distinct serial bands — the 3.9M cluster for the early 5513 and 5513/5517 double-reference watches, the 5.3M cluster for the dedicated 5517 batch. Phillips Geneva XIV (November 2021) lot 152 hammered at CHF 504,000 including premium for a c.1978 example with Henry Hudson MOD-issuance letter — the public auction record for the reference. Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 reached CHF 482,600 for a comparable 1978 full-spec example. Both results sit in the same year-bracket; the 504K Phillips figure is higher.


<span id="core-facts"></span>
<span id="core-facts"></span>
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|-
|-
| distribution
| distribution
| Royal Navy (British military), no retail
| Royal Navy (SBS) and British Army (SAS); never retailed
|-
| production
| approximately 1972 to 1979 across three batches (auction-house corpus)
|-
| total program output
| contested. ~1,200 produced / ~180 known (Bob's, Bourn, Italian Watch Spotter consensus); 1,110 / ~300 (Wind); 1,250 / unstated (Hairspring); 1,500 / "less than 500" (Sotheby's, Phillips HK)
|-
| 5517-batch-3 specific
| ~250 produced / ~50 known (Phillips MilSub-discovery article — only 5517-only subset figure surfaced)
|-
|-
| movement
| movement
| caliber 1520 (disputed; forum collectors argue 1570)
| caliber 1520, 26 jewels (auction-house corpus universal: Phillips, Sotheby's, Antiquorum, Bonhams, Horobox all read 1520; the 1570 forum claim looks like contamination from standard 5512 / 5513 cases that can house either)
|-
|-
| case
| case
| 40mm, fixed bars (soldered, non-removable spring bars)
| 40mm Oyster, fixed lug bars (friction-welded permanent spring bars)
|-
|-
| crystal
| crystal
Line 46: Line 55:
|-
|-
| bezel
| bezel
| 60-minute (full-minute markings around entire bezel)
| full 60-minute graduated, MOD spec — appears on no retail Submariner of the period
|-
| hands
| sword / "gladiator" hands across all three batches; some Batch 1 examples shipped with Mercedes hands per drsd.com — sword was factory spec from program inception, Mercedes-handed survivors are mostly later service replacements
|-
|-
| dial
| dial
| T SWISS T designation (tritium)
| matte black with T SWISS T (tritium); Maxi I and II generations on later examples
|-
|-
| caseback
| caseback
| broad arrow, circled T, military service number
| Royal Navy: 0552 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] + broad arrow. Army (W10): W10 / 6645 / 99 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] + broad arrow. T-circle is a DIAL marking, not caseback.
|-
| hands
| Mercedes (early batches), broadsword/plongeur (Batch 3)
|-
| total production
| approximately 1,200 units
|-
| accounted for
| roughly 180 examples
|}
|}


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== Where it sits in the line ==
== Where it sits in the line ==


The 5517 sits outside the ordinary retail no-date Submariner line. The 5513 was used by various military forces, but those were standard commercial watches procured through military channels. The 5517 was built for British military diving with specifications that appear on no retail Submariner: fixed bars soldered into the lugs, a 60-minute bezel graduated all the way around, a T SWISS T tritium dial, and military caseback markings. Each was a Ministry of Defence requirement rather than a Rolex commercial choice.
The 5517 sits outside the ordinary retail no-date Submariner line. The 5513 was used by various military forces, but those were standard commercial watches procured through military channels. The 5517 was built for British military diving with specifications that appear on no retail Submariner: fixed bars soldered into the lugs, a 60-minute bezel graduated all the way around, a T SWISS T tritium dial, sword hands, and military caseback markings. Each was a Ministry of Defence requirement, not a Rolex commercial choice.


The 5514 (COMEX) and the 5517 are the two non-retail branches of the 5513 era, and they sit in different worlds. The 5514 was a civilian-professional watch issued to a French commercial diving company. The 5517 was military, issued to the Royal Navy.
The 5514 (COMEX) and the 5517 are the two non-retail branches of the 5513 era and they sit in different worlds. The 5514 was a civilian-professional watch issued to a French commercial diving company. The 5517 was military, issued to the Royal Navy SBS and British Army SAS. The earliest documented intersection of military issue with the big-crown Submariner is the A/6538 SBS (1957, ~50 examples), which predates the 5517 program by nearly fifteen years.


<span id="production-outline"></span>
<span id="production-outline"></span>
== Production outline ==
== Production outline ==


Production ran in three batches, each with its own caseback and hand signature. Total output was roughly 1,200 units, of which about 180 are accounted for in collector databases and auction records. The remainder are lost, destroyed through military use, or sitting undiscovered. The scarcity is a structural part of how the watch trades.
Production ran in three batches with overlapping serial bands. Total program output is genuinely contested across the corpus and the article cites all five reputable readings rather than picking one.
 
<span id="batch-1-5513-case-engravings-between-12-lugs"></span>
=== Batch 1: 5513 case engravings between 12 lugs ===
 
The first batch still carries 5513 lug engravings, the clearest sign that the 5517 starts as a military adaptation of the commercial case rather than a separate case family.
 
Serial bands fall between roughly 3M and 4M, putting the run in the early 1970s — about 1971 to 1974. The lower boundary is not fixed from factory records.


<span id="batch-2-5513-engravings-plus-5517-stamp-under-7-lug"></span>
<span id="batch-1-5513-engravings-only"></span>
=== Batch 2: 5513 engravings plus 5517 stamp under 7 lug ===
=== Batch 1: 5513 engravings only ===


The second batch keeps the 5513 engravings between the twelve lugs and adds a 5517 reference stamp under the seven lug. Some examples carry both styles on the same caseback at the same time, the dual-marking pattern that captures the transition from repurposed 5513 cases to dedicated 5517 production. The Sotheby's December 2019 lot, sold as a 5513/5517 c.1974, fits this transitional character.
The first batch carries 5513 lug engravings between the 12 lugs — the clearest sign that the 5517 program starts as a military adaptation of the standard 5513 case rather than a separate case family. Sword hands and 60-minute bezel were the factory spec from the inception of the program, but a small number of Batch 1 5513s shipped with Mercedes hands per drsd.com. Surviving Mercedes-handed MilSubs are mostly service replacements where MOD watchmakers swapped the oxidising sword set.


Serial bands run between roughly 4M and 5M, mid-1970s production, about 1975 to 1977.
<span id="batch-2-5513-5517-double-reference"></span>
=== Batch 2: 5513/5517 double-reference ===


<span id="batch-3-5517-engravings-between-lugs-with-broadsword-hands"></span>
The second batch keeps 5513 between the 12:00 lugs and adds a 5517 stamp under one lug (commonly the 7:00 lug per Daniel Bourn's reference taxonomy). The dual-marking pattern captures the transition from repurposed 5513 cases to dedicated 5517 production. Auction-house corpus places the double-ref batch in the 3.926M serial band — Phillips New York 2019 lot 28 (case 3,926,768, c.1972, issue 688/77), Phillips Hong Kong 2017 lot 807 (case 3,926,923, c.1974, W10 Army issue 941/79), Antiquorum Monaco 2022 lot 77 (case 3,926,842, c.1975, W10 issue 960/79), Sotheby's 2023 lot 64 (case 3,926,898, c.1973), Bonhams 2018 lot 90 (392xxxx, c.1972). Issue years 77 and 79 dominate the cluster.
=== Batch 3: 5517 engravings between lugs with broadsword hands ===


The third and final batch carries 5517 engravings between the lugs and the broadsword hands that most collectors now picture when they say MilSub. This is the late, full-spec form of the reference.
<span id="batch-3-5517-only-engravings"></span>
=== Batch 3: 5517 engravings between lugs ===


Serial bands run between roughly 5M and 6M, late-1970s production, about 1977 to 1980.
The third batch carries 5517 between the 12:00 lugs with no 5513 anywhere on the case — the late, full-spec form of the reference. Auction-house corpus places the pure 5517 batch in the 5.339M serial band: Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 lot 152 (case 5,339,827, c.1978, hammer CHF 504,000), Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 (case 5,339,705, c.1978, issue 853/78, hammer CHF 482,600), the Phillips MilSub-discovery article reunited pair (case 5,339,667, c.1978). All issue years are 78. Phillips's article on the reunited pair gives the only 5517-batch-specific subset figure: ~250 produced, ~50 known.


All three serial bands are collector approximations cross-referenced from auction records, private sales, and reference catalogues rather than factory data. The Royal Navy never published procurement lists by serial number, and Rolex does not confirm military issue dates. The ranges are internally consistent across auction catalogues and represent the current collector consensus, not factory boundaries.
The 3.9M and 5.3M bands are the two serial clusters that map cleanly. The 4M–5M middle band sometimes cited in dealer copy does not surface in the auction-house corpus and should be treated as cross-batch noise rather than a third serial band.


<span id="movement-notes"></span>
<span id="movement-notes"></span>
== Movement notes ==
== Movement notes ==


The 5517 movement is disputed. Published source work leans toward caliber 1520. Forum collectors argue for caliber 1570. Both readings stay alive until direct movement evidence surfaces.
The 5517 runs caliber 1520. The auction-house corpus is unanimous: every Phillips, Sotheby's, Antiquorum, and Bonhams lot description reads cal. 1520 at 26 jewels. The forum-level claim that some 5517 examples carry caliber 1570 is not supported by any major-house lot in the surveyed corpus and likely reflects contamination from the standard 5512 / 5513 cases that can house either caliber. Treat the 1520 reading as resolved against the 1570 claim.
 
The 1520 is the long-run non-chronometer caliber that powers the 5513 through most of its run. The 5517's distinction over the standard 5513 is structural — fixed bars, 60-minute bezel, sword hands, military caseback engravings — rather than mechanical.


<span id="dial-map"></span>
<span id="dial-map"></span>
== Dial map ==
== Dial map ==


<span id="t-swiss-t-designation"></span>
<span id="standard-t-swiss-t-dial"></span>
=== T SWISS T designation ===
=== Standard T SWISS T military dial ===
 
The 5517 dial carries the T SWISS T designation, with the letter T flanking SWISS at the bottom of the dial. Both T markers signal a tritium radiation source, the isotope used for watch luminescence in this era. The dual-T format was legally required under UK regulations for tritium-lumed watches. It is one of the cleanest single-glance separators between a MilSub dial and a commercial 5513 dial.
 
<span id="standard-military-dial"></span>
=== Standard military dial ===


The dial carries the SUBMARINER model text and, on most examples, Rolex Oyster Perpetual above centre. Most MilSub dials carry no depth rating, in metric or imperial; the Ministry of Defence did not call for one. Military identity is carried by the T SWISS T marking, the caseback engravings, and the case modifications, not by a separate dial design.
Matte black with T SWISS T at the bottom of the dial — the dual-T format flanking SWISS, signaling tritium luminous compound. Both T markers are required under UK regulations for tritium-lumed watches. The dial carries the SUBMARINER model text and Rolex Oyster Perpetual above centre on most examples; most MilSub dials carry no depth rating in metric or imperial — the Ministry of Defence did not call for one. Military identity is carried by the T SWISS T marking, the caseback engravings, and the case modifications, not by a separate dial design.


<span id="maxi-i-dial"></span>
<span id="maxi-dial-generations"></span>
=== Maxi I dial ===
=== Maxi dial generations ===


The Sotheby's 2023 lot is described as a Maxi I dial. Maxi follows the same logic as on the late 5513: enlarged lume plots for legibility, in the last years of matte-dial production. The 1978 production date lines up with Maxi I placement on the 5513 timeline.
Late-program 5517 dials carry the same Maxi I (1977–1978, early 5M to early 6M serial range) and Maxi II generations documented across the contemporary 5513. Beaumont Miller II's 5513mattedial.com taxonomy is the cleanest reference for the Maxi sub-generations. The Sotheby's 2023 lot 3 (case 5,339,705, c.1978) catalogues a Maxi I dial. Maxi III ("lollipop") arrives c.1978 in the 5M–6M range — the latest 5517 dial generation surfaced in the auction-house corpus.


<span id="broadsword-hand-variants"></span>
<span id="sword-hand-variants"></span>
=== Broadsword hand variants ===
=== Sword hand variants ===


Third-batch examples carry broadsword (plongeur) hands, wider and more sword-shaped than the standard Mercedes hand and absent from every retail Submariner. On a wrist or in a photograph, they are the fastest visual cue that the watch is a MilSub.
Third-batch examples carry sword (also called "gladiator" or "plongeur") hands across the lot corpus — wider and more sword-shaped than the standard Mercedes hand and absent from every retail Submariner. Sword hands were factory spec across the entire program per Bob's, Bourn, drsd.com, and the Phillips MilSub-discovery article. drsd.com explicitly notes that some Batch 1 5513 MilSubs "delivered with either sword or Mercedes hands," with the 5517-only batch coming "ONLY with sword hands and full 60-minute bezel." Mercedes-handed MilSubs in collector hands today are mostly service replacements where MOD watchmakers swapped the oxidising sword set after long deployments.


<span id="case-bezel-crystal-and-crown-notes"></span>
<span id="case-bezel-crystal-and-crown"></span>
== Case, bezel, crystal, and crown ==
== Case, bezel, crystal, and crown ==


<span id="fixed-bars"></span>
<span id="fixed-lug-bars"></span>
=== Fixed bars ===
=== Fixed lug bars ===


Fixed bars are the key structural identifier. Strap bars are soldered permanently into the lugs rather than fitted as removable spring bars, so the strap cannot detach underwater if a bar fails. They are sized for NATO-style fabric pass-through and will not take a standard Oyster bracelet.
Friction-welded permanent spring bars, soldered into the lugs rather than fitted as removable spring bars — the strap cannot detach underwater if a bar fails. Universal across all three batches, a non-negotiable MOD spec from the program's inception. Sized for NATO-style fabric pass-through; the 5517 will not take a standard Oyster bracelet without removing the fixed bars and refitting standard spring-bar lugs.


<span id="minute-bezel"></span>
<span id="full-60-minute-bezel"></span>
=== 60-minute bezel ===
=== Full 60-minute graduated bezel ===


The 60-minute bezel carries minute gradations all the way around rather than only at five-minute intervals, giving the diver minute-by-minute elapsed-time tracking for decompression. It was a Ministry of Defence requirement and appears on no retail Submariner of the period.
Minute gradations all the way around the bezel rather than only at five-minute intervals — minute-by-minute elapsed-time tracking for decompression. Ministry of Defence requirement, appears on no retail Submariner of the period. The earliest 5513 MilSubs surface with both full-60 and standard 0–15 hashed inserts; the 5517-only batch is uniformly full-60.


<span id="case-engravings-and-caseback-markings"></span>
<span id="caseback-engraving-formats"></span>
=== Case engravings and caseback markings ===
=== Caseback engraving formats ===


Military-issue watches carry specific engravings on the caseback and between the lugs, varying by batch as set out above. Correct, matching military markings are the primary authentication test for any 5517.
The dual-engraving pattern splits cleanly between maker and customer. Rolex reference and case-number markings sit on the inner caseback. Military identification — broad arrow, NATO stock numbers, service numbers — sits on the outer caseback. Royal Navy / SBS issue uses the 0552 prefix: ''0552 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year]'' plus the broad arrow. Army / SAS / W10 issue uses the W10 prefix: ''W10 / 6645 / 99 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year]'' plus the broad arrow. The T-circle is a dial marking, not a caseback engraving, and articles that describe it as caseback-side conflate two separate authentication tells.


The dual-engraving pattern splits cleanly between maker and customer. Rolex reference and production markings sit on the inner caseback. Military identification (broad arrow, circled T, NATO stock numbers, service numbers) sits on the outer caseback. The inside/outside split holds across all three batches and is the first place a serious buyer looks.
Documented issue numbers in the auction-house corpus: 688/77, 691/77, 853/78, 941/79, 960/79, 395/75. The broad arrow is the British government property mark — any broad-arrow watch in the civilian market either left service through official decommissioning or carries an unclear chain of custody. The mark is never a civilian or retail marking.


The broad arrow is the British government property mark, stamped into the outer caseback and present on most 5517 examples. Any broad-arrow watch in the civilian market either left service through official decommissioning or carries an unclear chain of custody. The mark itself is never a civilian or retail marking.
<span id="bracelets-end-links-clasps-and-packaging"></span>
 
The circled T is the UK legal requirement under the Radioactive Substances Act for tritium-containing items. It typically appears next to the broad arrow, marking military ownership and regulatory compliance in the same engraving block.
 
Many examples carry a NATO stock number beginning 0552, the Ministry of Defence procurement prefix, and a correctly formatted 0552 number is consistent with authentic MOD procurement. An individual service number or unit identifier is often engraved alongside, linking the watch to a specific sailor or diving unit. Cross-referencing a service number against Royal Navy records, where accessible, is the most rigorous provenance check available for the reference.
 
<span id="bracelets-end-links-clasps-and-packaging-notes"></span>
== Bracelets, end links, clasps, and packaging notes ==
== Bracelets, end links, clasps, and packaging notes ==


Military-issue watches were delivered on NATO-style fabric straps rather than metal bracelets, in keeping with the fixed-bar design. The bars do not take a standard Oyster bracelet, and the NATO pass-through is deliberate: the strap continues beneath the watch even if one bar fails, so the watch stays on the wrist. Packaging followed procurement logistics. Watches arrived in military stores packaging, not standard Rolex retail boxes.
<span id="special-branches"></span>
== Special branches ==
[[File:Ref 5517 hero 2.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517|Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517]]
[[File:Ref 5517 hero 2.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517|Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517]]
[[File:Ref 5517 hero 3.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517|Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517]]
[[File:Ref 5517 hero 3.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517|Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517]]


<span id="batch-3-broadsword"></span>
Military-issue watches were delivered on NATO-style fabric straps rather than metal bracelets, in keeping with the fixed-bar design. The bars do not take a standard Oyster bracelet, and the NATO pass-through is deliberate — the strap continues beneath the watch even if one bar fails, so the watch stays on the wrist. Packaging followed procurement logistics: watches arrived in military stores packaging, not standard Rolex retail boxes.
=== Batch 3 broadsword ===
 
Third-batch broadsword examples are the most collected and most valuable form of the reference. Dedicated 5517 engravings, broadsword hands, fixed bars, and the 60-minute bezel are the full-specification MilSub in one watch.
 
<span id="batch-1-transitional"></span>
=== Batch 1 transitional ===
 
First-batch examples with 5513 engravings show the 5517 before it developed its own caseback identity. They are the earliest military-specific Submariners in the 5517 programme.


<span id="authentication-warning"></span>
<span id="authentication-warning"></span>
== Authentication warning ==
== Authentication ==


The 5517 is one of the most faked Rolex references in the market. Extreme value (consistently above $200,000 at auction), a comparatively simple base watch (a modified 5513), and the difficulty of verifying military provenance combine to make the reference a fraud target.
The 5517 is one of the most faked Rolex references in the market. Extreme value (consistently above USD 200,000 at auction), a comparatively simple base watch (a modified 5513), and the difficulty of verifying military provenance combine to make the reference a fraud target. The conversion path is short: a standard 5513 takes fixed bars, a 60-minute bezel, military caseback engravings, and sword hands. Each step is within reach of a skilled watchmaker, and the finished result can read visually convincing to anyone who has not handled a genuine example.


The conversion path is short: a standard 5513 takes fixed bars, a 60-minute bezel, military caseback engravings, and broadsword hands. Each step is within reach of a skilled watchmaker, and the finished result can be visually convincing to anyone who has not handled a genuine example.
A critical authentication subtlety surfaces in the Phillips MilSub-discovery article: caseback / movement serial mismatches are documented period practice. SAS operatives returned 5517s to stockroom after missions, and casebacks were swapped during reissue cycles. A "non-matching" 5517 may still be entirely period-correct under this practice — case-back swapping was MOD policy, not a tampering tell. The corollary: a "matching" 5517 is not automatically more authentic than a non-matching one if the chain of custody documents the SAS / SBS reissue pattern.


Three checks carry most of the authentication weight. First, documented provenance: a chain of custody connecting the watch to a specific Royal Navy unit or service number, verifiable against military records where those records are accessible. Second, physical inspection by a specialist who can read fixed-bar construction, caseback engraving depth and consistency, bezel graduation quality, and hand proportions against genuine military specification. Third, cross-reference against known examples; with only about 180 accounted for, the specialist community is small enough that most genuine watches are tracked.
The dealer-side "5513-T-MOD" and "5517-T-MOD" terminology is collector folklore for service-stripped MilSubs (issue marks rubbed off, parts service-swapped, or never engraved). No registry-quality source treats T-MOD as a distinct taxonomic class. The cleaner taxonomy is the three batches above plus standard 5513 / 5514 COMEX as adjacent military-adjacent references.


The fake problem is not theoretical. Specific fraudulent conversions have been documented at auction and through private dealers, and authentication should be treated as the load on any 5517 purchase.
Italian Watch Spotter notes a roughly EUR 20,000 value penalty for service-replaced bezels even when the replacement is period-correct. Sword-hand replacement, dial relume, and "added T" (where a non-T dial has the T markers added) are documented fakery vectors on otherwise genuine cases. Three checks carry most of the authentication weight: documented provenance (chain of custody to a specific Royal Navy unit or service number, verifiable against military records); physical inspection by a specialist who can read fixed-bar construction, caseback engraving depth and consistency, bezel graduation quality, and hand proportions against genuine military specification; cross-reference against known examples — the specialist community is small enough that most genuine watches are tracked.


<span id="historical-market-and-auction-record"></span>
<span id="historical-market-and-auction-record"></span>
== Historical market and auction record ==
== Historical market and auction record ==


Three auction results frame the 5517 as a consistent six-figure reference across different examples.
{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
! Sale !! Lot !! Year !! Serial !! Batch / config !! Hammer
|-
| Phillips Geneva XIV || 152 || 2021 || 5,339,827 || Batch 3, c.1978 Maxi, Henry Hudson letter || CHF 504,000 incl. premium
|-
| Sotheby's Important Watches I Geneva || 3 || 2023 || 5,339,705 || Batch 3, c.1978 Maxi I, issue 853/78 || CHF 482,600
|-
| Phillips Bacs & Russo Geneva || — || 2025 || — || 5517 39mm || USD 401,270
|-
| Antiquorum Monaco || 353-77 || 2022 || 3,926,842 || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1975, W10 issue 960/79 || EUR 260,000
|-
| Phillips New York "Game Changers" || 28 || 2019 || 3,926,768 || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1972, Royal Navy issue 688/77 || USD 218,750
|-
| Bonhams London Knightsbridge || — || 2022 || — || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1975, original Royal Navy diver provenance, caseback 691/77 || GBP 195,600 incl. premium
|-
| Phillips Bacs & Russo Geneva || — || 2024 || — || 5517 || USD 123,283
|-
| Wannenes Italy || — || 2025 || — || 5517 39mm || USD 182,178
|-
| Fellows Birmingham Luxury Watch Sale || 129 || 2020 || — || 5517, MOD engravings || GBP 174,800 incl. premium (Fellows house record)
|-
| Phillips Hong Kong || 807 || 2017 || 3,926,923 || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1974, W10 Army issue 941/79 || HK$ 1,625,000
|-
| Sotheby's New York || 238 || 2018 || — || 5517 c.1978, MOD engravings || login-gated
|-
| Sotheby's Important Watches II Geneva || 64 || 2023 || 3,926,898 || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1973, Maxi Mk I pumpkin patina || login-gated
|-
| Bonhams London Fine Watches || 90 || 2018 || 392xxxx || Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1972, military engravings removed, inner caseback I.72 || GBP 72,500 incl. premium
|-
| Phillips New York "Winning Icons" || 48 || 2017 || — || 5513/5517, 1979, W10 Army Air Corps || login-gated
|}


Sotheby's, November 2023: a MilSub c.1978 sold for 482,600 CHF and reset the auction ceiling for the reference. That result is now the reference point for a full-spec late watch.
The Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 result of CHF 504,000 is the public auction record for the 5517. The Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 at CHF 482,600 sits a few percent below it. Both are 1978 Batch-3 examples in the 5.339M serial band — the late, full-spec form of the reference that defines the modern collector market. Batch-2 5513/5517 double-reference examples cluster EUR 200,000 to GBP 200,000 depending on configuration and provenance. Batch 1 5513-only MilSubs trade lower because of the more frequent service-component drift on early examples.


Sotheby's, November 2018: a 5517 c.1978 sold for 218,750 CHF, documented with caliber 1520, military issue numbering, and a Rolex presentation case, against an estimate of 150,000 to 300,000 CHF.
The market runs on batch identity, completeness of military documentation, and physical condition. Third-batch sword examples in full-spec condition with documented provenance, the service number on the caseback, the matching inside number, and an original T SWISS T dial in an unpolished case sit at the top of the MilSub market.


Sotheby's, December 2019: a 5513/5517 c.1974 sold for $262,500. The lot bridges the 5513 and 5517 designations, consistent with the Batch 1 and Batch 2 examples where 5513 and 5517 markings coexist on one caseback.
== Sources ==


Three results above $200,000 in their respective currencies, inside a five-year window, for a watch produced in roughly 1,200 units with only 180 accounted for. The rarity is structural rather than statistical. It was made for one client, in limited procurement batches, to be used operationally, and most of these watches had hard lives.
* [https://monochrome-watches.com/rolex-submariner-history-part-2-the-55xx-1680references/ History of the Rolex Submariner — Part 2, The 55XX References and 1680 Date] — Tom Mulraney (Monochrome, 2020)
 
* [https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-mike-woods-for-exhibition-only-a-private-rolex-collection-on-limited-display Inside Mike Wood's "For Exhibition Only": A Private Rolex Collection On Limited Display] — Tim Vaux (Hodinkee)
The value drivers are also specific. A 5517 reaches prices above $250,000 because it carries genuine military provenance rather than retail stock, period-correct tritium lume aged naturally across five decades, and physical specification unavailable on any retail watch (fixed bars, 60-minute bezel, broadsword hands). Each factor adds value on its own; together they produce results that regularly clear pre-auction estimates.
* [https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/rolex-submariner-reference-points Reference Points: Understanding The Rolex Submariner] — Stephen Pulvirent (Hodinkee, 2019)
 
* [https://www.windvintage.com/rolex-milsub-submariner-reference-5513 Rolex MilSub Submariner Reference 5513] — Eric Wind (Wind Vintage)
The market runs on batch type, completeness of military documentation, and physical condition. Third-batch broadsword examples in full-spec condition, with documented provenance, the service number on the caseback, the matching inside number, and an original T SWISS T dial in an unpolished case, sit at the top of the MilSub market.
* [https://www.phillips.com/article/151026516/a-cool-new-discovery-on-a-vintage-rolex-milsub An Unexpected Discovery on a Vintage Rolex Submariner MilSub] (Phillips)
 
* [https://danielbourn.com/the-rolex-milsub/ The Rolex Milsub — Rolex 5517 The Rolex Military Submariner] — Daniel Bourn
== Sources ==
* [https://italianwatchspotter.com/rolex-milsub-military-submariner/?lang=en The Rolex Milsub: the MIL-itary SUB-mariner] (Italian Watch Spotter)
* [https://hairspring.com/blogs/finds/5513-7-double-reference-rolex-royal-navy-milsub 5513/7 Double Reference Rolex Royal Navy MilSub] (Hairspring)
* [https://www.drsd.com/watch-info/mil-sub/the-military-submariner.html The Rolex Military Submariner 5513] (drsd.com)
* [http://5513mattedial.com/MaxiDials.html Maxi Dials — 5513 Matte Dial Review] — Beaumont Miller II
* [https://www.fellows.co.uk/blog/watches/2020/08/24/rolex-milsub-sells-for-over-165000-smashing-fellows-house-record/ Rolex MilSub Sells for Over £174,000 Smashing Fellows House Record] (Fellows Auctioneers, 2020)
* [https://corradomattarelli.com/products/the-british-military-submariner-ref-5517 Military Submariner — A Watch Made by History] — Corrado Mattarelli (OnlyVintage Magazine listing)
* [https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-blog/resources/rolex-milsub-submariner-ref-5517.html The Rolex MilSub Submariner Ref. 5517 resource page] (Bob's Watches editorial)
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080221/152 Rolex Submariner MilSub Ref. 5517 — Phillips Geneva XIV lot 152] (Phillips, 2021)
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2023/important-watches-part-i-2/military-submariner-reference-5517-a-stainless?locale=en Full Spec Military Submariner Reference 5517 c.1978 — Sotheby's Important Watches Part I lot 3] (Sotheby's, 2023)
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2018/important-watches-ge1804/lot.238.html?locale=en MilSub Submariner Ref 5517 c.1978 — Sotheby's lot 238] (Sotheby's, 2018)
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/NY080119/28 Rolex Military Submariner Double Reference 5513/5517 — Phillips New York Game Changers lot 28] (Phillips, 2019)
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/HK080316/807 Rolex Military Submariner Ref. 5513/5517 — Phillips Hong Kong lot 807] (Phillips, 2016)
* [https://catalog.antiquorum.swiss/en/lots/rolex-ref-5513-5517-under-the-lug-submariner-so-called-milsub-lot-353-77 Rolex Ref. 5513/5517 Military Submariner — Antiquorum Monaco 2022 lot 77] (Antiquorum, 2022)
* [https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27662/lot/44/ Rolex Royal Navy Military Submariner Ref. 5513/5517 — Bonhams Knightsbridge 2022] (Bonhams, 2022)
* [https://www.bonhams.com/auction/24632/lot/90/ Rolex Submariner Ref. 5513/5517 Military — Bonhams 2018 lot 90] (Bonhams, 2018)
* ''The Vintage Rolex Field Manual'' — Colin A. White, Morning Tundra
* ''The Vintage Rolex Field Manual'' — Colin A. White, Morning Tundra
* [https://monochrome-watches.com/rolex-submariner-history-part-2-the-55xx-1680references/ History of the Rolex Submariner - Part 2, The 55XX References and 1680 Date] — Tom Mulraney, Monochrome
* [https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/inside-mike-woods-for-exhibition-only-a-private-rolex-collection-on-limited-display Inside Mike Wood's 'For Exhibition Only': A Private Rolex Collection On Limited Display] — Tim Vaux, Hodinkee
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/2023/important-watches-part-i-2/military-submariner-reference-5517-a-stainless?locale=en Full Spec Military Submariner, Reference 5517, Circa 1978] — Sotheby's, Sotheby's
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2018/important-watches-ge1804/lot.238.html?locale=en MilSub Submariner, Ref 5517, Stainless Steel Military Wristwatch Made for the British Armed Forces, Circa 1978] — Sotheby's, Sotheby's


[[Category:Submariner]]
[[Category:Submariner]]
[[Category:Working Draft]]
[[Category:Working Draft]]

Revision as of 06:44, 29 April 2026


Submariner -> 5517

The 5517 is the MilSub: the British military Submariner, purpose-built for the Ministry of Defence and never sold through any retail channel. Production ran across three batches roughly 1972 to 1979 in two distinct serial bands — the 3.9M cluster for the early 5513 and 5513/5517 double-reference watches, the 5.3M cluster for the dedicated 5517 batch. Phillips Geneva XIV (November 2021) lot 152 hammered at CHF 504,000 including premium for a c.1978 example with Henry Hudson MOD-issuance letter — the public auction record for the reference. Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 reached CHF 482,600 for a comparable 1978 full-spec example. Both results sit in the same year-bracket; the 504K Phillips figure is higher.

Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517

Core facts

detail value
reference 5517
family Submariner (no date, military-issue)
distribution Royal Navy (SBS) and British Army (SAS); never retailed
production approximately 1972 to 1979 across three batches (auction-house corpus)
total program output contested. ~1,200 produced / ~180 known (Bob's, Bourn, Italian Watch Spotter consensus); 1,110 / ~300 (Wind); 1,250 / unstated (Hairspring); 1,500 / "less than 500" (Sotheby's, Phillips HK)
5517-batch-3 specific ~250 produced / ~50 known (Phillips MilSub-discovery article — only 5517-only subset figure surfaced)
movement caliber 1520, 26 jewels (auction-house corpus universal: Phillips, Sotheby's, Antiquorum, Bonhams, Horobox all read 1520; the 1570 forum claim looks like contamination from standard 5512 / 5513 cases that can house either)
case 40mm Oyster, fixed lug bars (friction-welded permanent spring bars)
crystal acrylic
bezel full 60-minute graduated, MOD spec — appears on no retail Submariner of the period
hands sword / "gladiator" hands across all three batches; some Batch 1 examples shipped with Mercedes hands per drsd.com — sword was factory spec from program inception, Mercedes-handed survivors are mostly later service replacements
dial matte black with T SWISS T (tritium); Maxi I and II generations on later examples
caseback Royal Navy: 0552 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] + broad arrow. Army (W10): W10 / 6645 / 99 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] + broad arrow. T-circle is a DIAL marking, not caseback.

Where it sits in the line

The 5517 sits outside the ordinary retail no-date Submariner line. The 5513 was used by various military forces, but those were standard commercial watches procured through military channels. The 5517 was built for British military diving with specifications that appear on no retail Submariner: fixed bars soldered into the lugs, a 60-minute bezel graduated all the way around, a T SWISS T tritium dial, sword hands, and military caseback markings. Each was a Ministry of Defence requirement, not a Rolex commercial choice.

The 5514 (COMEX) and the 5517 are the two non-retail branches of the 5513 era and they sit in different worlds. The 5514 was a civilian-professional watch issued to a French commercial diving company. The 5517 was military, issued to the Royal Navy SBS and British Army SAS. The earliest documented intersection of military issue with the big-crown Submariner is the A/6538 SBS (1957, ~50 examples), which predates the 5517 program by nearly fifteen years.

Production outline

Production ran in three batches with overlapping serial bands. Total program output is genuinely contested across the corpus and the article cites all five reputable readings rather than picking one.

Batch 1: 5513 engravings only

The first batch carries 5513 lug engravings between the 12 lugs — the clearest sign that the 5517 program starts as a military adaptation of the standard 5513 case rather than a separate case family. Sword hands and 60-minute bezel were the factory spec from the inception of the program, but a small number of Batch 1 5513s shipped with Mercedes hands per drsd.com. Surviving Mercedes-handed MilSubs are mostly service replacements where MOD watchmakers swapped the oxidising sword set.

Batch 2: 5513/5517 double-reference

The second batch keeps 5513 between the 12:00 lugs and adds a 5517 stamp under one lug (commonly the 7:00 lug per Daniel Bourn's reference taxonomy). The dual-marking pattern captures the transition from repurposed 5513 cases to dedicated 5517 production. Auction-house corpus places the double-ref batch in the 3.926M serial band — Phillips New York 2019 lot 28 (case 3,926,768, c.1972, issue 688/77), Phillips Hong Kong 2017 lot 807 (case 3,926,923, c.1974, W10 Army issue 941/79), Antiquorum Monaco 2022 lot 77 (case 3,926,842, c.1975, W10 issue 960/79), Sotheby's 2023 lot 64 (case 3,926,898, c.1973), Bonhams 2018 lot 90 (392xxxx, c.1972). Issue years 77 and 79 dominate the cluster.

Batch 3: 5517 engravings between lugs

The third batch carries 5517 between the 12:00 lugs with no 5513 anywhere on the case — the late, full-spec form of the reference. Auction-house corpus places the pure 5517 batch in the 5.339M serial band: Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 lot 152 (case 5,339,827, c.1978, hammer CHF 504,000), Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 (case 5,339,705, c.1978, issue 853/78, hammer CHF 482,600), the Phillips MilSub-discovery article reunited pair (case 5,339,667, c.1978). All issue years are 78. Phillips's article on the reunited pair gives the only 5517-batch-specific subset figure: ~250 produced, ~50 known.

The 3.9M and 5.3M bands are the two serial clusters that map cleanly. The 4M–5M middle band sometimes cited in dealer copy does not surface in the auction-house corpus and should be treated as cross-batch noise rather than a third serial band.

Movement notes

The 5517 runs caliber 1520. The auction-house corpus is unanimous: every Phillips, Sotheby's, Antiquorum, and Bonhams lot description reads cal. 1520 at 26 jewels. The forum-level claim that some 5517 examples carry caliber 1570 is not supported by any major-house lot in the surveyed corpus and likely reflects contamination from the standard 5512 / 5513 cases that can house either caliber. Treat the 1520 reading as resolved against the 1570 claim.

The 1520 is the long-run non-chronometer caliber that powers the 5513 through most of its run. The 5517's distinction over the standard 5513 is structural — fixed bars, 60-minute bezel, sword hands, military caseback engravings — rather than mechanical.

Dial map

Standard T SWISS T military dial

Matte black with T SWISS T at the bottom of the dial — the dual-T format flanking SWISS, signaling tritium luminous compound. Both T markers are required under UK regulations for tritium-lumed watches. The dial carries the SUBMARINER model text and Rolex Oyster Perpetual above centre on most examples; most MilSub dials carry no depth rating in metric or imperial — the Ministry of Defence did not call for one. Military identity is carried by the T SWISS T marking, the caseback engravings, and the case modifications, not by a separate dial design.

Maxi dial generations

Late-program 5517 dials carry the same Maxi I (1977–1978, early 5M to early 6M serial range) and Maxi II generations documented across the contemporary 5513. Beaumont Miller II's 5513mattedial.com taxonomy is the cleanest reference for the Maxi sub-generations. The Sotheby's 2023 lot 3 (case 5,339,705, c.1978) catalogues a Maxi I dial. Maxi III ("lollipop") arrives c.1978 in the 5M–6M range — the latest 5517 dial generation surfaced in the auction-house corpus.

Sword hand variants

Third-batch examples carry sword (also called "gladiator" or "plongeur") hands across the lot corpus — wider and more sword-shaped than the standard Mercedes hand and absent from every retail Submariner. Sword hands were factory spec across the entire program per Bob's, Bourn, drsd.com, and the Phillips MilSub-discovery article. drsd.com explicitly notes that some Batch 1 5513 MilSubs "delivered with either sword or Mercedes hands," with the 5517-only batch coming "ONLY with sword hands and full 60-minute bezel." Mercedes-handed MilSubs in collector hands today are mostly service replacements where MOD watchmakers swapped the oxidising sword set after long deployments.

Case, bezel, crystal, and crown

Fixed lug bars

Friction-welded permanent spring bars, soldered into the lugs rather than fitted as removable spring bars — the strap cannot detach underwater if a bar fails. Universal across all three batches, a non-negotiable MOD spec from the program's inception. Sized for NATO-style fabric pass-through; the 5517 will not take a standard Oyster bracelet without removing the fixed bars and refitting standard spring-bar lugs.

Full 60-minute graduated bezel

Minute gradations all the way around the bezel rather than only at five-minute intervals — minute-by-minute elapsed-time tracking for decompression. Ministry of Defence requirement, appears on no retail Submariner of the period. The earliest 5513 MilSubs surface with both full-60 and standard 0–15 hashed inserts; the 5517-only batch is uniformly full-60.

Caseback engraving formats

The dual-engraving pattern splits cleanly between maker and customer. Rolex reference and case-number markings sit on the inner caseback. Military identification — broad arrow, NATO stock numbers, service numbers — sits on the outer caseback. Royal Navy / SBS issue uses the 0552 prefix: 0552 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] plus the broad arrow. Army / SAS / W10 issue uses the W10 prefix: W10 / 6645 / 99 / 923-7697 / [issue]/[year] plus the broad arrow. The T-circle is a dial marking, not a caseback engraving, and articles that describe it as caseback-side conflate two separate authentication tells.

Documented issue numbers in the auction-house corpus: 688/77, 691/77, 853/78, 941/79, 960/79, 395/75. The broad arrow is the British government property mark — any broad-arrow watch in the civilian market either left service through official decommissioning or carries an unclear chain of custody. The mark is never a civilian or retail marking.

Bracelets, end links, clasps, and packaging notes

Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517
Rolex Submariner Ref. 5517

Military-issue watches were delivered on NATO-style fabric straps rather than metal bracelets, in keeping with the fixed-bar design. The bars do not take a standard Oyster bracelet, and the NATO pass-through is deliberate — the strap continues beneath the watch even if one bar fails, so the watch stays on the wrist. Packaging followed procurement logistics: watches arrived in military stores packaging, not standard Rolex retail boxes.

Authentication

The 5517 is one of the most faked Rolex references in the market. Extreme value (consistently above USD 200,000 at auction), a comparatively simple base watch (a modified 5513), and the difficulty of verifying military provenance combine to make the reference a fraud target. The conversion path is short: a standard 5513 takes fixed bars, a 60-minute bezel, military caseback engravings, and sword hands. Each step is within reach of a skilled watchmaker, and the finished result can read visually convincing to anyone who has not handled a genuine example.

A critical authentication subtlety surfaces in the Phillips MilSub-discovery article: caseback / movement serial mismatches are documented period practice. SAS operatives returned 5517s to stockroom after missions, and casebacks were swapped during reissue cycles. A "non-matching" 5517 may still be entirely period-correct under this practice — case-back swapping was MOD policy, not a tampering tell. The corollary: a "matching" 5517 is not automatically more authentic than a non-matching one if the chain of custody documents the SAS / SBS reissue pattern.

The dealer-side "5513-T-MOD" and "5517-T-MOD" terminology is collector folklore for service-stripped MilSubs (issue marks rubbed off, parts service-swapped, or never engraved). No registry-quality source treats T-MOD as a distinct taxonomic class. The cleaner taxonomy is the three batches above plus standard 5513 / 5514 COMEX as adjacent military-adjacent references.

Italian Watch Spotter notes a roughly EUR 20,000 value penalty for service-replaced bezels even when the replacement is period-correct. Sword-hand replacement, dial relume, and "added T" (where a non-T dial has the T markers added) are documented fakery vectors on otherwise genuine cases. Three checks carry most of the authentication weight: documented provenance (chain of custody to a specific Royal Navy unit or service number, verifiable against military records); physical inspection by a specialist who can read fixed-bar construction, caseback engraving depth and consistency, bezel graduation quality, and hand proportions against genuine military specification; cross-reference against known examples — the specialist community is small enough that most genuine watches are tracked.

Historical market and auction record

Sale Lot Year Serial Batch / config Hammer
Phillips Geneva XIV 152 2021 5,339,827 Batch 3, c.1978 Maxi, Henry Hudson letter CHF 504,000 incl. premium
Sotheby's Important Watches I Geneva 3 2023 5,339,705 Batch 3, c.1978 Maxi I, issue 853/78 CHF 482,600
Phillips Bacs & Russo Geneva — 2025 — 5517 39mm USD 401,270
Antiquorum Monaco 353-77 2022 3,926,842 Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1975, W10 issue 960/79 EUR 260,000
Phillips New York "Game Changers" 28 2019 3,926,768 Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1972, Royal Navy issue 688/77 USD 218,750
Bonhams London Knightsbridge — 2022 — Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1975, original Royal Navy diver provenance, caseback 691/77 GBP 195,600 incl. premium
Phillips Bacs & Russo Geneva — 2024 — 5517 USD 123,283
Wannenes Italy — 2025 — 5517 39mm USD 182,178
Fellows Birmingham Luxury Watch Sale 129 2020 — 5517, MOD engravings GBP 174,800 incl. premium (Fellows house record)
Phillips Hong Kong 807 2017 3,926,923 Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1974, W10 Army issue 941/79 HK$ 1,625,000
Sotheby's New York 238 2018 — 5517 c.1978, MOD engravings login-gated
Sotheby's Important Watches II Geneva 64 2023 3,926,898 Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1973, Maxi Mk I pumpkin patina login-gated
Bonhams London Fine Watches 90 2018 392xxxx Batch 2 5513/5517, c.1972, military engravings removed, inner caseback I.72 GBP 72,500 incl. premium
Phillips New York "Winning Icons" 48 2017 — 5513/5517, 1979, W10 Army Air Corps login-gated

The Phillips Geneva XIV 2021 result of CHF 504,000 is the public auction record for the 5517. The Sotheby's November 2023 lot 3 at CHF 482,600 sits a few percent below it. Both are 1978 Batch-3 examples in the 5.339M serial band — the late, full-spec form of the reference that defines the modern collector market. Batch-2 5513/5517 double-reference examples cluster EUR 200,000 to GBP 200,000 depending on configuration and provenance. Batch 1 5513-only MilSubs trade lower because of the more frequent service-component drift on early examples.

The market runs on batch identity, completeness of military documentation, and physical condition. Third-batch sword examples in full-spec condition with documented provenance, the service number on the caseback, the matching inside number, and an original T SWISS T dial in an unpolished case sit at the top of the MilSub market.

Sources

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