Reference:3599: Difference between revisions

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{{DISPLAYTITLE:Rolex 3599 Bubbleback}}
{{DISPLAYTITLE:Rolex 3599 Rigid Hooded Bubbleback}}
The 3599 is the Bubbleback with its lugs closed off. Where a standard Perpetual leaves the
{{#seo:
spring-bar area open between the lugs, the 3599 covers it with fixed fluted hoods that run
|title=Rolex 3599 Rigid Hooded Bubbleback Reference Guide | BezelBase
from the case flank down to the strap, and sets them against a flat cylindrical bezel of
|description=Rolex reference 3599 Rigid Hooded Bubbleback: fitted hood covers, movement evidence, dial variants, retailer signatures and auction records.
unusual width. The result is a watch that reads considerably larger than its 32mm case, which
|image=Ref 3599 hero.webp
was the point. Auction catalogues have called it the "Rigid Hooded" Bubbleback since at least
|type=article
2001, and the name has stuck because it describes exactly what the watch is. The hoods do not
}}
articulate; they are machined into the case.


Two Bubbleback references carry hoods. The 3065 is the one collectors meet most often, usually
<small>[[Reference:bubbleback|Bubbleback]] → '''3599'''</small>
in two-tone with gold hoods over a steel case. The 3599 is the steel one, and it is scarce
enough that its public record fits in a single table. Nineteen lots across Antiquorum,
Christie's, Bonhams, Phillips and Monaco Legend account for most of what is documented about
it, spanning 2001 to 2025.


[[File:Ref 3599 hero.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Rolex Rigid Hooded Bubbleback 3599 in steel|Steel 3599, case 45032, three-tone silver Chronomètre dial — the fluted hoods and the wide flat bezel in one view]]
The 3599 closes the usual gap between its lugs with fixed hood covers and pairs them with a wide,
flat bezel. Most catalogued examples have fluted hoods, although smooth covers are also documented.
Auction houses have used the name "Rigid Hooded" since at least 2001. Here, rigid means that the
hoods do not articulate. Bonhams describes them as fitted covers, and surviving side views show
seams where they meet the case.
 
The reference is usually found in steel, with one steel-and-yellow-gold example also documented.
It is one of several hooded Bubblebacks: refs. 3065 and 3134 also appear with hooded cases. At
least 27 auction appearances across six houses are recorded between 2001 and 2025, although some
watches returned to auction and should not be counted as separate examples.
 
[[File:Ref 3599 hero.webp|thumb|right|340px|alt=Rolex Rigid Hooded Bubbleback 3599 in steel|Steel 3599, case 45032, three-tone silver Chronomètre dial — the fluted hoods and the wide flat bezel in one view]]


==Core facts==
==Core facts==
Line 42: Line 48:
|-
|-
| case construction
| case construction
| disputed: catalogues describe both two-body and three-body
| fitted hood covers; catalogues describe both two-body and three-body cases
|-
|-
| lugs
| lugs
| rigid hooded, fluted
| rigid hooded; fluted and smooth covers documented
|-
|-
| bezel
| bezel
Line 60: Line 66:
|-
|-
| movement
| movement
| Cal. 9¾′′′ Perpetual family; Cal. 635 named on documented examples
| early Rolex Perpetual family; Cal. 635 documented with subsidiary seconds
|-
|-
| jewels
| jewels
Line 75: Line 81:
|-
|-
| seconds
| seconds
| subsidiary at 6 on most examples; sweep centre seconds documented
| mainly subsidiary at 6; centre-seconds watches auctioned, exact caliber and factory status unresolved
|-
|-
| case materials
| case materials
Line 83: Line 89:
==Where it sits in the line==
==Where it sits in the line==


By the late 1930s the Bubbleback was a settled product. The case architecture had simplified to
By the late 1930s, Rolex offered the same basic 32mm tonneau Bubbleback under many references,
two pieces in 1936 with the 3131 and 3132, the Perpetual rotor was mature, and Rolex was selling
with changes to the bezel, metal and dial. Refs. 3131 and 3132 had introduced a simpler two-piece
the same basic 32mm tonneau across a long row of reference numbers distinguished mostly by
case in 1936. The 3599 took a different visual route: its covers close the gap between the lugs
bezel, metal and dial. The hooded references are what happens when a company decides that row
and extend the case toward the strap. It wears longer than the diameter suggests.
needs something with more shape to it.
 
Hoods do two things. They close a visual gap, giving the case an unbroken profile from bezel to
strap, and they extend the watch vertically so it covers more wrist. The second effect is the
one that mattered commercially. Hodinkee's survey of the family makes the point that part of
the Bubbleback's appeal to 1980s collectors was that it wore large next to the Art Deco and
American watches they were collecting alongside it, and that hooded examples, wearing larger
still, were wanted most of all.


Against the 3065, the 3599 is the austere one. The 3065 is typically encountered with gold
The 3065 usually has gold hoods and a gold bezel over a steel case, with an extended teardrop lug
hoods and a gold bezel over a steel case, its lugs cut to an extended teardrop profile. The
profile. The 3599 is mainly steel and has a much wider, flat bezel. Phillips used those two details
3599 puts fluting on the hoods, keeps almost everything in steel, and widens the bezel into a
to identify the reference in its 2016 catalogue. Ref. 3134 also appears with hoods, though auction
flat cylinder. Phillips, cataloguing the reference in 2016, described it as defined by that
catalogues show conventional cases under that number too. The three references overlap in period.
bezel of considerable width together with hoods covering the space normally found between the
lugs. The two references are contemporaries rather than successors.


Bonhams offers the only published account of why the hooded run was short: that it was a 1940s
Bonhams described hooded Bubblebacks as a 1940s attempt to refresh the case and revive sales.
attempt to re-invent the case design which failed to revive sales, after which production
The catalogue gives no production or sales figures, and its date conflicts with examples that
ceased. That is house commentary with no figures behind it, and it fits awkwardly against the
other houses place in the late 1930s. The explanation remains Bonhams' view rather than a settled
reference's own case numbers, several of which sit in the late 1930s. It is recorded here
production history.
because nothing else in the literature attempts an explanation, not because it is settled.


==Production outline==
==Production outline==
Line 113: Line 108:
[[File:Ref 3599 retailer-verga.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 in steel, case 206254, dated 1942|Case 206254, catalogued as 1942 — one of the case numbers behind the dating spread]]
[[File:Ref 3599 retailer-verga.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 in steel, case 206254, dated 1942|Case 206254, catalogued as 1942 — one of the case numbers behind the dating spread]]


Documented 3599 case numbers run from roughly 45,000 to 275,000, and the houses date them
Documented 3599 case numbers run from 45015 to 275254, and auction houses date them between 1939
between 1939 and 1946. Those two facts do not reconcile. Antiquorum dated case 45032 to 1945/6
and 1946. The dates do not follow the numbers. Antiquorum dated case 45032 to 1945/6, while
in the Mondani Collection sale while dating case 275254 to 1943 and case 56116 to 1939. The
Christie's later dated the same watch to 1939. Antiquorum dated case 275254 to 1943 and case
sharpest illustration comes from a pair at Christie's: cases 152894 and 152901 sit seven
56116 to 1939. Cases 152894 and 152901 sit seven numbers apart, yet Christie's dated the first
numbers apart, and Christie's dated the first to circa 1941 and the second to circa 1939.
to circa 1941 and the second to circa 1939.


The practical consequence is that catalogue dates on this reference are house opinion, not a
Catalogue dates for the 3599 are estimates, not a serial chart. Pre-1948 Rolex dating often relies
serial chart, and no published 3599 dating table exists to check them against. Pre-1948 Rolex
on assay marks or delivery papers, but steel cases have no assay marks. Without papers, a precise
dating generally leans on assay marks and delivery paperwork rather than year-letter charts,
production year for a 3599 is an inference.
and on a steel case there are no assay marks to lean on. A 3599 offered with a confident
production year is being dated by inference unless papers come with it.


What can be said with more confidence is the caliber window. Antiquorum's Mondani catalogue
Antiquorum's Mondani catalogue dates Cal. 635 to 1940–1951. Ranfft's movement database instead
note dates caliber 635 to 1940–1951, which places the bulk of 3599 production in the 1940s and
lists a 1950 launch and different movement dimensions. Neither source is enough to date the
is consistent with the reference disappearing before the Bubbleback line's final phase. That
reference, so the production outline rests on catalogued watches rather than a caliber window.
window is single-source and describes the movement instead of the reference, so it brackets
production rather than bounding it.


==Movement notes==
==Movement notes==


The 3599 runs the 9¾-ligne Perpetual family, the same architecture as its unhooded
Auction catalogues place the 3599 in Rolex's early Perpetual movement family, but their caliber
contemporaries. Caliber 635 is named explicitly on two lots — the Mondani Collection example
descriptions are not consistent. Antiquorum's Mondani Collection example has subsidiary seconds
and Christie's case 152894 — while the rest record only the bare ligne size. Construction is
and is catalogued as Cal. 635. Ranfft identifies 635 as the shock-protected subsidiary-seconds
rhodium-plated with a straight-line lever escapement, a monometallic balance Rolex marketed as
member of the 600-series family. The same source identifies Cal. 630 and 645 as the corresponding
the patented Super-Balance, and a self-compensating Breguet hairspring. Several lots note
centre-seconds movements.
fausses côtes decoration on the plates.


Jewel count splits. Seventeen-jewel movements appear at cases 52082, 97031 and 275254;
Christie's case 152894 visibly has centre seconds but is catalogued as Cal. 635. No public movement
nineteen-jewel movements appear across the same span, including on the Mondani example and on
photograph survives, so the exact caliber cannot be checked. The visible seconds layout is clear;
Christie's caliber-635 lot. The split does not track date or case number in any documented
the caliber entry is probably wrong. Other catalogues use bare ligne sizes, including 9¾ and 10½,
sequence, so it is better read as a grade distinction than a production phase. Several of the
without naming a caliber. They describe lever escapements, monometallic Super-Balance assemblies,
19-jewel lots carry Chronomètre on the dial, which would fit that reading, but not all of them
Breguet hairsprings and, on several examples, fausses côtes decoration.
do and the correlation has not been tested across enough examples to assert.


Both seconds layouts exist. The large majority of documented 3599s have a subsidiary seconds
Auction catalogues list both 17- and 19-jewel movements. Seventeen-jewel examples include cases
register at 6. Christie's case 152894 is catalogued with sweep centre seconds and skeletonised
52082, 97031 and 275254. Nineteen-jewel descriptions appear across the same range, including case
hands, and Christie's case 152901 with small seconds, which puts both configurations inside the
45032 and Christie's case 152894. The counts do not follow a clear date or case-number sequence.
reference on adjacent case numbers. One Antiquorum lot describes centre seconds in its header
Some 19-jewel watches have Chronomètre dials, but others do not.
and subsidiary seconds in its dial description; it is internally inconsistent and carries no
 
weight either way.
The large majority of documented 3599s have subsidiary seconds at 6. Christie's has auctioned
several centre-seconds watches, including cases 152894, 218526 and 218528. Those watches document
the configuration as sold, but the catalogues do not establish its exact caliber or prove that
each watch left Rolex in that form. An Antiquorum lot is internally inconsistent, calling the
watch centre-seconds in its header and subsidiary-seconds in its dial description, so it carries
no weight on the question.


==Dial map==
==Dial map==
Line 163: Line 157:
[[File:Ref 3599 dial-criss-cross.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 two-tone criss-cross silver dial|The two-tone criss-cross dial, circa 1944 — documented in the dealer market only, with no published case or movement number]]
[[File:Ref 3599 dial-criss-cross.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 two-tone criss-cross silver dial|The two-tone criss-cross dial, circa 1944 — documented in the dealer market only, with no published case or movement number]]


For a reference this scarce the dial range is wide, and no two documented examples in the
The documented dial range is unusually broad for a reference with so few known examples.
silvered family are quite alike.


Three-tone silver is the most frequently encountered configuration, appearing with luminous
Three-tone silver is the most frequently encountered configuration, appearing with luminous
Line 173: Line 166:
Geneva lot.
Geneva lot.


The unusual dials are what carry the reference at auction. A black dial with applied yellow
Antiquorum sold a black dial with applied yellow-gold baton indexes twice in 2002, describing it
gold baton indexes was catalogued by Antiquorum as a special dial and appeared twice in 2002.
as a special dial.
A bi-coloured off-white and copper dial with applied steel indexes took USD 18,400 in New York
A bi-coloured off-white and copper dial with applied steel indexes took USD 18,400 in New York
in 2005 against a USD 7,000–9,000 estimate. Christie's case 152894 pairs a satined copper dial
in 2005 against a USD 7,000–9,000 estimate. Christie's case 152894 pairs a satined copper dial
with skeletonised hands. Phillips sold a two-tone champagne and black dial with Arabic numerals
with skeletonised hands. Phillips sold a two-tone champagne and black dial with Arabic numerals
in 2016 and called it exceptionally rare, which the surrounding record supports — nothing else
in 2016 and described it as exceptionally rare.
like it has surfaced.


The remaining documented grounds are silvered with applied gilt batons and luminescent dots
Bonhams catalogued a silvered dial with applied gilt batons and luminous dots. Antiquorum also
(the Bonhams example) and off-white with applied steel radium-coated indexes.
sold an off-white dial with applied steel, radium-coated indexes.


Two further dials sit outside the auction record entirely, documented only in the dealer
Two further dials sit outside the auction record entirely, documented only in the dealer
market: a two-tone criss-cross silver dial on a 1944-dated example, and a bow tie dial with
market: a two-tone criss-cross silver dial on a 1944-dated example, and a bow tie dial with
luminous Arabic numerals on one dated around 1940. Bow tie, sometimes called Papillon, is
luminous Arabic numerals on one dated around 1940. Bow tie, sometimes called Papillon, is
familiar Bubbleback dial vocabulary from other references in the family. Neither example
familiar Bubbleback dial vocabulary from other references in the family. Neither listing gives
carries a published case or movement number, so both are recorded as leads rather than
a case or movement number. They show that both descriptions have been used for ref. 3599, but
anchored variants, and whether the two descriptions point at the same geometric dial family on
do not establish whether they describe the same geometric dial design.
this reference is unresolved.


Hands follow the dial rather than the era. Blued steel feuille and blued steel luminous batons
Catalogued hands include blued steel feuille, luminous batons, Alpha hands in steel or yellow
account for most examples; Alpha hands appear luminescent, radium-coated in steel, and
gold, and yellow-gold lozenges. Christie's centre-seconds case 152894 has skeletonised hands.
radium-coated in yellow gold; the two-tone example wears yellow gold lozenge hands; the
sweep-seconds Christie's lot wears skeletonised hands.


==Case, bezel, crystal, and crown==
==Case, bezel, crystal, and crown==


[[File:Ref 3599 hooded-lugs-detail.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 hooded lug and wide flat bezel detail|The fluted hood running from the case flank into the strap, against the flat cylindrical bezel]]
[[File:Ref 3599 hooded-lugs-detail.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 hooded lug and wide flat bezel detail|A smooth fitted hood cover against the flat cylindrical bezel, case 206254]]
[[File:Ref 3599 case-profile.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 side profile showing the domed caseback|Side profile: the domed back that gives the family its name, case 56116]]
[[File:Ref 3599 case-profile.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 side profile showing the domed caseback|Side profile: the domed back that gives the family its name, case 56116]]
[[File:Ref 3599 caseback.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 screw-down caseback stamped 206254|Screw-down caseback stamped 206254, with the underside of the hoods either side]]
[[File:Ref 3599 caseback.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 screw-down caseback stamped 206254|Screw-down caseback stamped 206254, with the underside of the hoods either side]]


The hoods are the reference. They are fixed, fluted, and machined as part of the case rather
The hoods are fixed covers rather than articulated end pieces. Bonhams describes a "fitted hooded
than fitted over it, which is what "rigid" is doing in the collector name — it separates these
cover," and photographs of case 206254 show seams around the hood assembly. Most auction catalogues
from the aftermarket hoods that were added to plain Bubblebacks once hooded examples started
describe fluting, while that Verga-signed example has smooth covers. The method used to attach the
commanding premiums. That practice is well documented on the 3065, where the caseback stamp and
covers is not documented. Sotheby's also warned that the raised hoods and visible gap on case 45015
the lug profile are the standard authentication checks, and the same logic applies here: a 3599
might indicate modification, so a hooded case still has to be judged example by example.
should read 3599 on the caseback, and the hoods should carry crisp fluting continuous with the
case surface.


The bezel is the second signature. It is flat, cylindrical, polished, and wider than anything
The polished bezel is flat, cylindrical and unusually wide for a Bubbleback of the period. Its
on a standard Bubbleback of the period. Together with the hoods it is what makes the watch look
width, combined with the hood covers, makes the case look larger than its stated diameter.
bigger than it measures.


The measurement itself is contested. Antiquorum, Christie's and the market indices give 32mm.
The measurement itself is contested. Antiquorum, Christie's and the market indices give 32mm.
Bonhams and Monaco Legend give 31mm. Phillips gives 34mm. The spread is a convention artifact —
Bonhams and Monaco Legend give 31mm. Phillips gives 34mm. The reason for the spread is not
whether the wide bezel and the hood flanks are included changes the number — and 32mm is both
documented. Thirty-two millimetres is the most frequent catalogue figure. Catalogued thickness
the consensus and the standard Bubbleback case size. Catalogued thickness is either 12mm or
is either 12mm or 14mm.
14mm, again without a pattern that maps onto anything else.


Case construction is disputed in the same way and probably for the same reason. Antiquorum
Case construction is also disputed. Antiquorum
described two-body cases on the Mondani lot and on three others; Antiquorum also described
described two-body cases on the Mondani lot and on three others; Antiquorum also described
three-body cases on four lots, and Christie's and Bonhams both count three. The likeliest
three-body cases on four lots, and Christie's and Bonhams both count three. The likeliest
explanation is a counting convention, turning on whether the hood assembly is tallied separately
explanation is a counting convention, but nothing published resolves it.
from the mid-case. Nothing published resolves it.


Crystal is acrylic and domed. The crown is a screw-down Oyster, and the caseback screws down
Crystal is acrylic and domed. The crown is a screw-down Oyster, and the caseback screws down
Line 244: Line 228:
[[File:Ref 3599 two-tone-steel-gold.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 in steel with yellow gold hoods and bezel|The only documented bicolor 3599: yellow gold hoods, bezel and crown over a steel body, gold lozenge hands]]
[[File:Ref 3599 two-tone-steel-gold.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=3599 in steel with yellow gold hoods and bezel|The only documented bicolor 3599: yellow gold hoods, bezel and crown over a steel body, gold lozenge hands]]


Steel, with one exception. Every located 3599 is stainless except the Hong Kong lot of June
Most documented 3599s are stainless steel. Antiquorum's Hong Kong sale in June 2001 included one
2001, which is a bicolor case with yellow gold hoods, bezel and winding crown over a steel
bicolor example with yellow-gold hoods, bezel and crown over a steel body. It has a matte silver
body, matched to a matte silver dial with yellow gold batons and gold lozenge hands. That is
dial, yellow-gold batons and gold lozenge hands. No second two-tone example has been located, so
one example. It establishes that the configuration exists and nothing more — there is no
the lot does not establish a broader material range for the reference.
documented material range on this reference, and any listing implying a spread of gold options
is describing the 3065.


==Retailer branch==
==Retailer-signed dials==


[[File:Ref 3599 retailer-forbes.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Forbes-signed 3599 in steel|The Forbes-retailed steel example, case 52082, 17 jewels]]
[[File:Ref 3599 retailer-forbes.webp|thumb|right|250px|alt=Forbes-signed 3599 in steel|The Forbes-retailed steel example, case 52082, 17 jewels]]


One retailer-signed 3599 is documented: the Forbes-signed steel example, case 52082, sold by
Four retailer-signed 3599s are documented. Sotheby's sold a Mappin & Webb example in 2010;
Antiquorum in Geneva in May 2025. No other retailer signature has surfaced on the reference.
Phillips sold case 218530 signed Giudici Milano in 2015; Monaco Legend sold the Verga-signed case
206254 in 2022; and Antiquorum sold the Forbes-signed case 52082 in 2025.


==Published literature==
==Published literature==


The 3599 is illustrated in Osvaldo Patrizzi's ''Rolex, Collecting Wristwatches'' (Guido Mondani
Osvaldo Patrizzi's ''Rolex, Collecting Wristwatches'' (Guido Mondani Editore, Genova) illustrates
Editore, Genova), in the 1998 edition at pages 135 and 278 and in the 2001 edition at pages
the 3599 in the 1998 edition at pages 135 and 278 and in the 2001 edition at pages 158–159. The
158–159, the latter showing the Mondani Collection watch itself. Both citations come from
latter shows the Mondani Collection watch. Both page references come from Antiquorum catalogue
Antiquorum's catalogue notes rather than from the book directly, so they establish that hooded
notes, which confirm the illustrations but do not quote Patrizzi's text.
Bubblebacks are covered in the standard Mondani-published collecting reference without
warranting any specific claim to Patrizzi's text.


==Auction record==
==Auction record==
Line 277: Line 258:
! result
! result
|-
|-
| 2006-05-14
| 2001-06-08
| Antiquorum, The Mondani Collection, Geneva
| Antiquorum, Hong Kong
| 254
| 331
| case 45032, three-tone silver, cal 635, 19j
| matte silver radium dial, 19j
| CHF 47,200
| HKD 132,250
|-
|-
| 2025-05-10
| 2001-06-08
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| Antiquorum, Hong Kong
| 153
| 332
| case 52082, retailed by Forbes, 17j, no reserve
| steel and yellow gold, gold hoods and lozenge hands
| CHF 26,250
| HKD 41,400
|-
|-
| 2002-04-13
| 2002-04-13
Line 294: Line 275:
| black dial, applied gold batons, radium Alpha hands
| black dial, applied gold batons, radium Alpha hands
| CHF 25,300
| CHF 25,300
|-
| 2016-11-11
| Phillips, The Geneva Watch Auction FOUR
| 76
| case 97031, two-tone champagne and black dial, 1941
| CHF 25,000
|-
| 2005-06-15
| Antiquorum, New York
| 207
| bi-coloured off-white and copper dial, feuille hands
| USD 18,400
|-
|-
| 2002-11-16
| 2002-11-16
Line 319: Line 288:
| USD 14,950
| USD 14,950
|-
|-
| 2001-06-08
| 2005-06-15
| Antiquorum, Hong Kong
| Antiquorum, New York
| 331
| 207
| matte silver radium dial, 19j
| bi-coloured off-white and copper dial, feuille hands
| HKD 132,250
| USD 18,400
|-
| 2006-05-14
| Antiquorum, The Mondani Collection, Geneva
| 254
| case 45032, three-tone silver, Cal. 635, 19j
| CHF 47,200
|-
| 2008-03-16
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| 285
| case 206262, three-tone silver luminous dial
| result unrecorded
|-
| 2008-05-29
| Christie's, Hong Kong
| 2724
| case 218528, centre seconds, 17j
| HKD 112,500
|-
| 2008-05-29
| Christie's, Hong Kong
| 2725
| case 152901, two-tone silver dial, subsidiary seconds
| HKD 187,500
|-
|-
| 2008-06-19
| 2008-06-19
Line 331: Line 324:
| USD 12,600
| USD 12,600
|-
|-
| 2021-07-21
| 2008-12-03
| Antiquorum, Monaco
| Christie's, Hong Kong
| 136
| 3230
| 1939, case 56116, silver dial, Bamboo bracelet
| case 266189, Super Precision, subsidiary seconds
| EUR 8,580
| HKD 32,500
|-
| 2008-12-03
| Christie's, Hong Kong
| 3231
| case 152894, copper dial, centre seconds
| HKD 40,000
|-
| 2008-12-03
| Christie's, Hong Kong
| 3232
| case 218526, silver dial, centre seconds
| HKD 43,750
|-
| 2008-12-11
| Antiquorum, New York
| 56
| early 1940s, three-tone silver painted Arabic dial
| USD 6,960
|-
| 2009-11-16
| Christie's, Geneva
| 346
| case 45032, Mondani provenance
| CHF 43,750
|-
| 2010-05-08
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| 384
| case 45982, matte silver baton dial
| result unrecorded
|-
| 2010-05-10
| Christie's, Geneva
| 279
| case 186279, silvered dial, with box
| CHF 30,000
|-
| 2010-10-27
| Sotheby's, New York
| 119
| Mappin & Webb-signed two-tone quadrant dial
| USD 16,250
|-
|-
| 2010-11-13
| 2010-11-13
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| 131
| 131
| 1942, case 206262, three-tone silver luminous dial
| case 206262, three-tone silver luminous dial
| CHF 8,125
| CHF 8,125
|-
|-
Line 346: Line 381:
| Antiquorum, New York
| Antiquorum, New York
| 378
| 378
| 1943, case 275254, dart indexes, 17j
| case 275254, dart indexes, 17j
| USD 7,000
| USD 7,000
|-
|-
| 2008-12-11
| 2015-11-08
| Antiquorum, New York
| Phillips, Geneva Watch Auction TWO
| 56
| 279
| early 1940s, three-tone silver painted Arabic dial
| case 218530, Giudici Milano-signed black dial
| USD 6,960
| CHF 42,500
|-
| 2016-11-11
| Phillips, Geneva Watch Auction FOUR
| 76
| case 97031, two-tone champagne and black dial
| CHF 25,000
|-
| 2017-06-07
| Sotheby's, New York
| 129
| case 45015, silvered dial; possible case modification noted
| USD 10,625
|-
| 2021-07-21
| Antiquorum, Monaco
| 136
| case 56116, silver dial, Bamboo bracelet
| EUR 8,580
|-
| 2022-04-23
| Monaco Legend, Exclusive Timepieces 28
| 35
| case 206254, Verga-signed dial, smooth hoods
| EUR 31,250
|-
|-
| 2001-06-08
| 2025-05-10
| Antiquorum, Hong Kong
| Antiquorum, Geneva
| 332
| 153
| steel and yellow gold, gold hoods and lozenge hands
| case 52082, retailed by Forbes, 17j, no reserve
| HKD 41,400
| CHF 26,250
|}
|}


Four further lots are documented without recorded results: Antiquorum Geneva May 2010 lot 384
These are auction appearances, not a census of unique watches. Case 45032 appears twice, as does
(case 45982), Antiquorum Geneva March 2008 lot 285 (case 206262, the same watch that returned
case 206262. Results span different currencies, dates, dial types and condition reports, so the
in 2010), Christie's lots 5091688 and 5158178, and Monaco Legend Exclusive Timepieces 28 lot 35
table does not support a simple price trend or a dial-premium rule.
(case 206254).
 
The reference performed strongly in the
early 2000s, when Bubbleback collecting still had momentum, then settled into four figures
through the 2010s alongside the rest of the family, and the 2025 Geneva result suggests the
floor has lifted again. Dial matters more than anything else: the black gold-baton dial, the
copper bi-colour and the champagne-and-black two-tone all cleared their estimates by wide
margins, while conventional silvered examples cluster at the bottom of the table regardless of
condition grade.


== Related references ==
== Related references ==


* [[Reference:3065|Bubbleback 3065]] — the other hooded Bubbleback, 1937–1950
* [[Reference:3065|Bubbleback 3065]] — hooded Bubbleback commonly seen in two-tone, 1937–1950
* [[Reference:3134|Bubbleback 3134]] — hooded and conventional cases documented
* [[Reference:3131|Bubbleback 3131]] — 1936–1948
* [[Reference:3131|Bubbleback 3131]] — 1936–1948
* [[Reference:3372|Bubbleback 3372]] — peak-era production reference
* [[Reference:3372|Bubbleback 3372]] — peak-era production reference
Line 398: Line 449:
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5158178 Christie's, "Christie's Lot 5158178 — Rolex Ref. 3599 Hooded Bubbleback, stainless steel automatic wristwatch with hooded lugs, case 152894, circa 1941", Christie's]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5158178 Christie's, "Christie's Lot 5158178 — Rolex Ref. 3599 Hooded Bubbleback, stainless steel automatic wristwatch with hooded lugs, case 152894, circa 1941", Christie's]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5091688 Christie's, "Christie's Lot 5091688 — Rolex "Oyster Perpetual" Bubble Back Ref. 3599, stainless steel self-winding tonneau-shaped wristwatch with small seconds and hooded lugs, case 152901, circa 1939", Christie's]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5091688 Christie's, "Christie's Lot 5091688 — Rolex "Oyster Perpetual" Bubble Back Ref. 3599, stainless steel self-winding tonneau-shaped wristwatch with small seconds and hooded lugs, case 152901, circa 1939", Christie's]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5309408 Christie's, "Christie's Geneva Lot 279 — Rolex ref. 3599, case 186279, with box", Christie's, 2010-05-10]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5158179 Christie's, "Christie's Hong Kong Lot 3232 — Rolex ref. 3599, case 218526, sweep centre seconds", Christie's, 2008-12-03]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5091687 Christie's, "Christie's Hong Kong Lot 2724 — Rolex ref. 3599, case 218528, sweep seconds and hooded lugs", Christie's, 2008-05-29]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5158177 Christie's, "Christie's Hong Kong Lot 3230 — Rolex Super Precision ref. 3599, case 266189", Christie's, 2008-12-03]
* [https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-5257795 Christie's, "Christie's Geneva Lot 346 — Rolex ref. 3599, case 45032, Mondani provenance", Christie's, 2009-11-16]
* [https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/watches/rolex/oyster-perpetual-bubbleback/ref-rolex-3599/lpi "Rolex Oyster Perpetual Bubbleback ref. 3599 — LuxPrice-Index", Collectors Square]
* [https://www.collectorsquare.com/en/watches/rolex/oyster-perpetual-bubbleback/ref-rolex-3599/lpi "Rolex Oyster Perpetual Bubbleback ref. 3599 — LuxPrice-Index", Collectors Square]
* [https://www.everestbands.com/blogs/bezel-barrel/the-rolex-bubbleback-history-facts Everest Bands, "Everest Bands — The Rolex Bubbleback: History and Facts", Everest Bands, current]
* [https://www.everestbands.com/blogs/bezel-barrel/the-rolex-bubbleback-history-facts Everest Bands, "Everest Bands — The Rolex Bubbleback: History and Facts", Everest Bands, current]
Line 404: Line 460:
* ''Rolex, Collecting Wristwatches'' — Osvaldo Patrizzi, Guido Mondani Editore, Genova, 1998
* ''Rolex, Collecting Wristwatches'' — Osvaldo Patrizzi, Guido Mondani Editore, Genova, 1998
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080216/76 Phillips, "Phillips, The Geneva Watch Auction FOUR, Lot 76 — Rolex Ref. 3599 Bubbleback, stainless steel with two-tone dial and hooded lugs", Phillips, 2016-11-11]
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080216/76 Phillips, "Phillips, The Geneva Watch Auction FOUR, Lot 76 — Rolex Ref. 3599 Bubbleback, stainless steel with two-tone dial and hooded lugs", Phillips, 2016-11-11]
* [https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080515/279 Phillips, "Phillips Geneva Watch Auction TWO Lot 279 — Rolex ref. 3599, retailed by Giudici Milano", Phillips, 2015-11-08]
* [https://ranfft.org/caliber/9387-Rolex-635 Ranfft DB contributors, "Rolex caliber 635", Ranfft DB]
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/rolex/comments/ayckkj/cool_rolex_of_the_day_502_3599_oyster_perpetual/ "r/rolex "Cool Rolex of the Day" entries for ref 3599 (#502 and #2766)", Reddit]
* [https://www.reddit.com/r/rolex/comments/ayckkj/cool_rolex_of_the_day_502_3599_oyster_perpetual/ "r/rolex "Cool Rolex of the Day" entries for ref 3599 (#502 and #2766)", Reddit]
* [https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/lists/rolex-bubbleback-watches-collector-guide-1931-1950s-1235893131/ Robb Report, "Robb Report — A Collector's Guide to Rolex Bubbleback Watches 1931-1950s", Robb Report, current]
* [https://robbreport.com/style/watch-collector/lists/rolex-bubbleback-watches-collector-guide-1931-1950s-1235893131/ Robb Report, "Robb Report — A Collector's Guide to Rolex Bubbleback Watches 1931-1950s", Robb Report, current]
* [https://robertmaron.com/rolex-bubble-back-3599-two-tone-criss-cross-dial-hooded-steel.html "Rolex Bubble Back 3599 two-tone criss-cross dial, hooded, steel", Robert Maron]
* [https://robertmaron.com/rolex-bubble-back-3599-two-tone-criss-cross-dial-hooded-steel.html "Rolex Bubble Back 3599 two-tone criss-cross dial, hooded, steel", Robert Maron]
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2017/important-watches-n09696/lot.129.html Sotheby's, "Sotheby's New York Lot 129 — Rolex ref. 3599, case 45015", Sotheby's, 2017-06-07]
* [https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2010/important-watches-and-clocks-n08671/lot.119.html Sotheby's, "Sotheby's New York Lot 119 — Rolex ref. 3599, retailed by Mappin & Webb", Sotheby's, 2010-10-27]
* ''The Vintage Rolex Field Manual'' — Colin A. White, Morning Tundra
* ''The Vintage Rolex Field Manual'' — Colin A. White, Morning Tundra
* [https://www.windvintage.com/blog/how-rolex-became-rolex-the-automatic-perpetual-movement-part-2 Charlie Dunne / Wind Vintage, "Wind Vintage — How Rolex Became Rolex: The Automatic Perpetual Movement Part 2", Wind Vintage, 2023-11-03]
* [https://www.windvintage.com/blog/how-rolex-became-rolex-the-automatic-perpetual-movement-part-2 Charlie Dunne / Wind Vintage, "Wind Vintage — How Rolex Became Rolex: The Automatic Perpetual Movement Part 2", Wind Vintage, 2023-11-03]
[[Category:Bubbleback]]
[[Category:Bubbleback]]
[[Category:References]]

Latest revision as of 06:56, 23 August 2026


Bubbleback → 3599

The 3599 closes the usual gap between its lugs with fixed hood covers and pairs them with a wide, flat bezel. Most catalogued examples have fluted hoods, although smooth covers are also documented. Auction houses have used the name "Rigid Hooded" since at least 2001. Here, rigid means that the hoods do not articulate. Bonhams describes them as fitted covers, and surviving side views show seams where they meet the case.

The reference is usually found in steel, with one steel-and-yellow-gold example also documented. It is one of several hooded Bubblebacks: refs. 3065 and 3134 also appear with hooded cases. At least 27 auction appearances across six houses are recorded between 2001 and 2025, although some watches returned to auction and should not be counted as separate examples.

Rolex Rigid Hooded Bubbleback 3599 in steel
Steel 3599, case 45032, three-tone silver Chronomètre dial — the fluted hoods and the wide flat bezel in one view

Core facts

detail value
reference 3599
family Bubbleback (collector name; never official Rolex usage)
collector name "Rigid Hooded" Bubbleback
production documented examples catalogued 1939–1946
case diameter 32mm (catalogues also give 31mm and 34mm)
case shape tonneau
case construction fitted hood covers; catalogues describe both two-body and three-body cases
lugs rigid hooded; fluted and smooth covers documented
bezel flat cylindrical, unusually wide, polished
caseback screw-down, domed
crown screw-down Oyster
crystal acrylic
movement early Rolex Perpetual family; Cal. 635 documented with subsidiary seconds
jewels 17 or 19, both documented
frequency 18,000 bph
balance patented Super-Balance, monometallic
hairspring self-compensating Breguet
seconds mainly subsidiary at 6; centre-seconds watches auctioned, exact caliber and factory status unresolved
case materials stainless steel; one documented steel-and-yellow-gold example

Where it sits in the line

By the late 1930s, Rolex offered the same basic 32mm tonneau Bubbleback under many references, with changes to the bezel, metal and dial. Refs. 3131 and 3132 had introduced a simpler two-piece case in 1936. The 3599 took a different visual route: its covers close the gap between the lugs and extend the case toward the strap. It wears longer than the diameter suggests.

The 3065 usually has gold hoods and a gold bezel over a steel case, with an extended teardrop lug profile. The 3599 is mainly steel and has a much wider, flat bezel. Phillips used those two details to identify the reference in its 2016 catalogue. Ref. 3134 also appears with hoods, though auction catalogues show conventional cases under that number too. The three references overlap in period.

Bonhams described hooded Bubblebacks as a 1940s attempt to refresh the case and revive sales. The catalogue gives no production or sales figures, and its date conflicts with examples that other houses place in the late 1930s. The explanation remains Bonhams' view rather than a settled production history.

Production outline

3599 in steel, case 206254, dated 1942
Case 206254, catalogued as 1942 — one of the case numbers behind the dating spread

Documented 3599 case numbers run from 45015 to 275254, and auction houses date them between 1939 and 1946. The dates do not follow the numbers. Antiquorum dated case 45032 to 1945/6, while Christie's later dated the same watch to 1939. Antiquorum dated case 275254 to 1943 and case 56116 to 1939. Cases 152894 and 152901 sit seven numbers apart, yet Christie's dated the first to circa 1941 and the second to circa 1939.

Catalogue dates for the 3599 are estimates, not a serial chart. Pre-1948 Rolex dating often relies on assay marks or delivery papers, but steel cases have no assay marks. Without papers, a precise production year for a 3599 is an inference.

Antiquorum's Mondani catalogue dates Cal. 635 to 1940–1951. Ranfft's movement database instead lists a 1950 launch and different movement dimensions. Neither source is enough to date the reference, so the production outline rests on catalogued watches rather than a caliber window.

Movement notes

Auction catalogues place the 3599 in Rolex's early Perpetual movement family, but their caliber descriptions are not consistent. Antiquorum's Mondani Collection example has subsidiary seconds and is catalogued as Cal. 635. Ranfft identifies 635 as the shock-protected subsidiary-seconds member of the 600-series family. The same source identifies Cal. 630 and 645 as the corresponding centre-seconds movements.

Christie's case 152894 visibly has centre seconds but is catalogued as Cal. 635. No public movement photograph survives, so the exact caliber cannot be checked. The visible seconds layout is clear; the caliber entry is probably wrong. Other catalogues use bare ligne sizes, including 9¾ and 10½, without naming a caliber. They describe lever escapements, monometallic Super-Balance assemblies, Breguet hairsprings and, on several examples, fausses côtes decoration.

Auction catalogues list both 17- and 19-jewel movements. Seventeen-jewel examples include cases 52082, 97031 and 275254. Nineteen-jewel descriptions appear across the same range, including case 45032 and Christie's case 152894. The counts do not follow a clear date or case-number sequence. Some 19-jewel watches have Chronomètre dials, but others do not.

The large majority of documented 3599s have subsidiary seconds at 6. Christie's has auctioned several centre-seconds watches, including cases 152894, 218526 and 218528. Those watches document the configuration as sold, but the catalogues do not establish its exact caliber or prove that each watch left Rolex in that form. An Antiquorum lot is internally inconsistent, calling the watch centre-seconds in its header and subsidiary-seconds in its dial description, so it carries no weight on the question.

Dial map

3599 two-tone champagne and black dial
Two-tone champagne and black dial with Arabic numerals, case 97031, dated 1941
3599 bi-coloured off-white and copper dial
Bi-coloured off-white and copper dial, applied steel indexes, blued steel feuille hands
3599 matte silver dial with dart indexes
Matte silver with applied steel Arabic numerals and dart indexes, case 275254, dated 1943
3599 silvered dial with gilt batons and Alpha hands
Silvered dial, applied gilt batons with luminescent dots, Alpha hands, circa 1945
3599 two-tone silvery dial with Arabic numerals
Two-tone silvery dial, Arabic numerals and small seconds, case 152901, circa 1939
3599 two-tone criss-cross silver dial
The two-tone criss-cross dial, circa 1944 — documented in the dealer market only, with no published case or movement number

The documented dial range is unusually broad for a reference with so few known examples.

Three-tone silver is the most frequently encountered configuration, appearing with luminous Dauphine numerals on the Mondani example, with luminous Arabic numerals on case 206262, and with painted Arabic numerals on a 2008 New York lot. Matte silver is the other common ground, carrying applied steel Arabic numerals with dart indexes on case 275254, radium Arabic with baton and triangular indexes on a Hong Kong lot, and plain applied steel batons on a 2010 Geneva lot.

Antiquorum sold a black dial with applied yellow-gold baton indexes twice in 2002, describing it as a special dial. A bi-coloured off-white and copper dial with applied steel indexes took USD 18,400 in New York in 2005 against a USD 7,000–9,000 estimate. Christie's case 152894 pairs a satined copper dial with skeletonised hands. Phillips sold a two-tone champagne and black dial with Arabic numerals in 2016 and described it as exceptionally rare.

Bonhams catalogued a silvered dial with applied gilt batons and luminous dots. Antiquorum also sold an off-white dial with applied steel, radium-coated indexes.

Two further dials sit outside the auction record entirely, documented only in the dealer market: a two-tone criss-cross silver dial on a 1944-dated example, and a bow tie dial with luminous Arabic numerals on one dated around 1940. Bow tie, sometimes called Papillon, is familiar Bubbleback dial vocabulary from other references in the family. Neither listing gives a case or movement number. They show that both descriptions have been used for ref. 3599, but do not establish whether they describe the same geometric dial design.

Catalogued hands include blued steel feuille, luminous batons, Alpha hands in steel or yellow gold, and yellow-gold lozenges. Christie's centre-seconds case 152894 has skeletonised hands.

Case, bezel, crystal, and crown

3599 hooded lug and wide flat bezel detail
A smooth fitted hood cover against the flat cylindrical bezel, case 206254
3599 side profile showing the domed caseback
Side profile: the domed back that gives the family its name, case 56116
3599 screw-down caseback stamped 206254
Screw-down caseback stamped 206254, with the underside of the hoods either side

The hoods are fixed covers rather than articulated end pieces. Bonhams describes a "fitted hooded cover," and photographs of case 206254 show seams around the hood assembly. Most auction catalogues describe fluting, while that Verga-signed example has smooth covers. The method used to attach the covers is not documented. Sotheby's also warned that the raised hoods and visible gap on case 45015 might indicate modification, so a hooded case still has to be judged example by example.

The polished bezel is flat, cylindrical and unusually wide for a Bubbleback of the period. Its width, combined with the hood covers, makes the case look larger than its stated diameter.

The measurement itself is contested. Antiquorum, Christie's and the market indices give 32mm. Bonhams and Monaco Legend give 31mm. Phillips gives 34mm. The reason for the spread is not documented. Thirty-two millimetres is the most frequent catalogue figure. Catalogued thickness is either 12mm or 14mm.

Case construction is also disputed. Antiquorum described two-body cases on the Mondani lot and on three others; Antiquorum also described three-body cases on four lots, and Christie's and Bonhams both count three. The likeliest explanation is a counting convention, but nothing published resolves it.

Crystal is acrylic and domed. The crown is a screw-down Oyster, and the caseback screws down into the domed profile that gives the family its name.

Bracelets, end links, and clasps

3599 on a steel Bamboo bracelet
Case 56116 on a steel Bamboo bracelet, Antiquorum Monaco 2021

Nothing on the 3599 is bracelet-specific. Documented examples have come on a stainless steel Rolex buckle (most of them), a stainless steel Oyster bracelet, a stainless steel Bamboo bracelet on the 1939 Monaco example, and leather with a steel pin buckle. As across the whole Bubbleback line, a clasp code dates the bracelet and not the watch head, and none of these fitments has been shown to be original delivery.

Case materials

3599 in steel with yellow gold hoods and bezel
The only documented bicolor 3599: yellow gold hoods, bezel and crown over a steel body, gold lozenge hands

Most documented 3599s are stainless steel. Antiquorum's Hong Kong sale in June 2001 included one bicolor example with yellow-gold hoods, bezel and crown over a steel body. It has a matte silver dial, yellow-gold batons and gold lozenge hands. No second two-tone example has been located, so the lot does not establish a broader material range for the reference.

Retailer-signed dials

Forbes-signed 3599 in steel
The Forbes-retailed steel example, case 52082, 17 jewels

Four retailer-signed 3599s are documented. Sotheby's sold a Mappin & Webb example in 2010; Phillips sold case 218530 signed Giudici Milano in 2015; Monaco Legend sold the Verga-signed case 206254 in 2022; and Antiquorum sold the Forbes-signed case 52082 in 2025.

Published literature

Osvaldo Patrizzi's Rolex, Collecting Wristwatches (Guido Mondani Editore, Genova) illustrates the 3599 in the 1998 edition at pages 135 and 278 and in the 2001 edition at pages 158–159. The latter shows the Mondani Collection watch. Both page references come from Antiquorum catalogue notes, which confirm the illustrations but do not quote Patrizzi's text.

Auction record

date house and sale lot example result
2001-06-08 Antiquorum, Hong Kong 331 matte silver radium dial, 19j HKD 132,250
2001-06-08 Antiquorum, Hong Kong 332 steel and yellow gold, gold hoods and lozenge hands HKD 41,400
2002-04-13 Antiquorum, Geneva 345 black dial, applied gold batons, radium Alpha hands CHF 25,300
2002-11-16 Antiquorum, Geneva (thematic) 477 off-white dial, radium Alpha hands, Oyster bracelet CHF 18,400
2002-12-04 Antiquorum, The Art of American Horology II, New York 333 black "special dial" with applied gold batons USD 14,950
2005-06-15 Antiquorum, New York 207 bi-coloured off-white and copper dial, feuille hands USD 18,400
2006-05-14 Antiquorum, The Mondani Collection, Geneva 254 case 45032, three-tone silver, Cal. 635, 19j CHF 47,200
2008-03-16 Antiquorum, Geneva 285 case 206262, three-tone silver luminous dial result unrecorded
2008-05-29 Christie's, Hong Kong 2724 case 218528, centre seconds, 17j HKD 112,500
2008-05-29 Christie's, Hong Kong 2725 case 152901, two-tone silver dial, subsidiary seconds HKD 187,500
2008-06-19 Bonhams, Fine Watches and Wristwatches, New York 167 circa 1945, gilt batons, Alpha hands, 31mm USD 12,600
2008-12-03 Christie's, Hong Kong 3230 case 266189, Super Precision, subsidiary seconds HKD 32,500
2008-12-03 Christie's, Hong Kong 3231 case 152894, copper dial, centre seconds HKD 40,000
2008-12-03 Christie's, Hong Kong 3232 case 218526, silver dial, centre seconds HKD 43,750
2008-12-11 Antiquorum, New York 56 early 1940s, three-tone silver painted Arabic dial USD 6,960
2009-11-16 Christie's, Geneva 346 case 45032, Mondani provenance CHF 43,750
2010-05-08 Antiquorum, Geneva 384 case 45982, matte silver baton dial result unrecorded
2010-05-10 Christie's, Geneva 279 case 186279, silvered dial, with box CHF 30,000
2010-10-27 Sotheby's, New York 119 Mappin & Webb-signed two-tone quadrant dial USD 16,250
2010-11-13 Antiquorum, Geneva 131 case 206262, three-tone silver luminous dial CHF 8,125
2012-04-25 Antiquorum, New York 378 case 275254, dart indexes, 17j USD 7,000
2015-11-08 Phillips, Geneva Watch Auction TWO 279 case 218530, Giudici Milano-signed black dial CHF 42,500
2016-11-11 Phillips, Geneva Watch Auction FOUR 76 case 97031, two-tone champagne and black dial CHF 25,000
2017-06-07 Sotheby's, New York 129 case 45015, silvered dial; possible case modification noted USD 10,625
2021-07-21 Antiquorum, Monaco 136 case 56116, silver dial, Bamboo bracelet EUR 8,580
2022-04-23 Monaco Legend, Exclusive Timepieces 28 35 case 206254, Verga-signed dial, smooth hoods EUR 31,250
2025-05-10 Antiquorum, Geneva 153 case 52082, retailed by Forbes, 17j, no reserve CHF 26,250

These are auction appearances, not a census of unique watches. Case 45032 appears twice, as does case 206262. Results span different currencies, dates, dial types and condition reports, so the table does not support a simple price trend or a dial-premium rule.

Related references

See also the Bubbleback family index, movement reference, bracelet & clasp guide, and serial numbers by year.

Sources

Retrieved from "https://bezelbase.org/index.php?title=Reference:3599&oldid=7804"